Sunday, July 19, 2009

Another Fake Follower ?

It was quite strange that when I started, I met whose blog has been dedicated towards applying the art of BaZi to his daily appetites. Then it was an appetizer that has sparked many interesting ideas to come. Especially associating with a Ren personality with many ideas that can potentially be monetized, as he said. Then it came ShiXiang from that made the entrée with deliciously translated BaZi literatures from various sources to the otherwise English speaking communities that solely depended on books by currently 2 most prolific writers whose work only acts liked a teaser to the highly priced live courses to come. Hats off to him as he is assembling the entire rule base of BaZi from various schools and non biased compared to myself, although the adverts on his blog is some times, quite annoying. As for, it will be another platform to spur discussion making it as dissert. Almost liked a salad bowl that makes the three comes together. Liked I always say, the SanYuan began with the three. So, with this blog, I received many queries ranging from reading a chart to identifying a structure especially pertaining to identifying the strength of the Self or the day master. Similarly to the fake follower chart of Miss Blue River, another lady by a pseudonym of CWC has the following request to make,

"... I have been following your blog with much interest. Since I am intrigued by Bazi and have been reading on the subject, your sister blog YiBazi came on timely and with much information too especially on determining the strength of the DM. I am a self-taught Bazi enthusiast and so far knew only that season determines the strength of DM as was given to understand in the books I read! Hence what I learnt from your blog actually overturns what I knew and which means I am not too sure about my own DM now. Could you enlighten me on the strength of my own DM and my favourable and unfavourable elements?
I am a female with this BaZI elements:

Year : Ding Hai
Month: Ji You
Day: Ji You
Hour: Ren Shen

Now, I interpret myself to be very weak, even perhaps a fake follower chart....

1. Not supported by the Season
2. No root in the branches
3. Only a resource Ding in the Stem of Year Pillar.

Thanking you in anticipation. Also thank you for sharing your knowledge so freely with people like me who is interested in Bazi but couldn’t afford the hefty fees to attend the classes offered…”

To start the ball rolling, my take is this is not a follower chart. It is just another weak chart. If recalled, ShiXiang did mention the followings: -

In determining the strength of the day master, The Three Main Rules are

1. The Season

2. The Ground

3. The Heaven

Here, Ji earth born in You month where metal is strong and water is prosperous, earth is however, weakened. Therefore, Ji self is not born in season. Second, one do not view on ground as just as just root. When there is no other earthly branch that support the self liked fire or earth (root) one can conclude it is not supported by Ground. Thirdly, the heaven. Here it is a little complicated as Ren and Ding may combine and transformed into wood. The question is will this transformation take place? Here, again ShiXiang has written a good piece of guideline as it states,


The eight month of rooster, Ren Ding does not transform.

When this transformation does not take place, it will render the chart as a weak chart. One has a self element and resource to break, even a fake, follower chart structure.

Therefore, in reading a weak chart, its favourable elements are earth, fire and in this case, even wood. Again, why is there a tendency to combine Ding and Ren when they are so far apart? Perhaps ShiXiang can write a piece of work on this.


Lwee said...


You are a weak ji DM.

1st criteria : weak - you month.
2nd criteria : weak - shen, you (day branch) and hai all do not support.
3rd criteria : strong - ji (month stem) and ding against ren.

Overall : 2 weak against 1 strong. So weak DM. Got it?

Your favourable stars are earth, fire and wood. Wood stars are also favourbale because fire star protrudes in the stem.

Ding-ren is considered side by side. (Year pillar and hour pillar are considered side by side). They do not transform into wood stars because the you month branch (autumn season) does not support the transformation.

Regards, Lwee.

Anonymous said...

Hi Lwee,

Please kindly confirm that my diagnosis of the following chart as fake follower is correct?
Year: Gui Mao
Month: Ding Si
Day: Gui Chou
Hour: Yi Mao

Is so; I understand that the favourable elements become Fire and Wood?

Will the diagnosis remain true when we take LP and AP (and may be MP and DP) into account?

Can these extra pillars, when taking into account; make the DM becomes simply a weak DM rather than a fake follower? If this can happen, then during this period of time, the favourable elements will change to water and metal instead?

When there is lots of resource and self-elements in these extra pillars, can DM even becomes a strong DM to control the fire? If this can happen, what will the favourable element(s) be?

Appreciate your usual insight. Thanks heaps.

Lwee said...

Hi anonymous friend,

Technically speaking, this is a fake follower chart. However, I have seen many fake follower charts that refuse to follow and so the DMs remain weak. (Maybe, this is the reason why it is called FAKE follower). So, a little feedback will normally help us confirm it.

If this is a fake follower chart, it is indeed a very favourable chart with strongly rooted useful god, wood stars and strongly rooted wealth fire stars.

A chart cannot change its status. It will remain the same once you have established it. If it is a fake follower chart,it will remain so throughout. The LPs and APs cannot change the status of the chart.

Regards, Lwee.

p/s. Maybe, you might want to put an initial otherwise there can be complications when there are more than 1 anonymous.

Anonymous said...

Thanks Lwee, the explanation clarifies my confusion but also adds more dilemmas to the subject at the same time.

How does one establish whether it is a fake follower chart that refuses to follow?

What kind of feedback do we need from DM?

I read Shi Xiang’s prescription to ask DM what are his/her “wealth” lucky years? What if it is a female housewife who does not earn income?

Thanks and regards,


Hi Lwee and MYL,

That was an interesting discussion you have just right there. I must agree with Lwee, there are many instances that a fake follower chart was broken in "structure" and maintained a weak chart after all. Perhaps Lwee could put up this case and MYL could provide us more details to have a fruitful discussions?

I cannot deny that ultimately, there is no follower charts as the LP and AP added in the much "confused" and complex dynamics to the entire behavior of the chart.

Looking forward.

Lwee said...


If this is a lady's chart, then her first 2 LPs would be wu-wu and ji-wei. Both LPs have earth stars protruding.

So, if this is a fake follower chart, she should have it easy during her younger days since earth stars are positive.

If this is a weak chart, then her younger days will be quite stressful.

Regards, Lwee.

Anonymous said...

Hi Lwee,

Ah….. so simple and yet I won’t have think of it in a million year. That is what separates between master and novice David! And yes I am telling you the truth when I said I am still a novice in this field, I only started reading about BaZi at the end of May 2009 and that is because I came across it by chance as well. But since then I have been reading like a person possessed as I realised once the lucky period passes, you will need to wait for another lucky cycle to come around again, and that might be a long while to wait for!

I did ask her to give me a bit more insight of her life. I have also known her for some years now and she has generously let me practice on her chart while I am struggling to make sense of what I had read on BaZi! She told me that she was born overseas (country 1) and spent her earlier years there. The family move back to the parent homeland (country 2) when she was about 7 or 8 where she started to learn new language and new custom at new environment. But she does not think that it is stressful to her, she said may be it is stressful for her parent but since she is too young to know any better, she does not think that it is a bad period for her. The family was not rich but she was well provided for within reason.

At the final year of Ji Wei period (1990) she obtained foreign country scholarship (country 3) where she met her husband, married and settle down there now. She had some hard time to obtain employment during the early year after she had moved to the new country but she got something eventually and so during her Geng Shen and Xin You periods, she thinks she had an average luck as well. So it seems her life has been quite comfortable since childhood until now.

Luck started to turn in 2006 during her mid Xin You Period, her father fell and broken a leg, an arm and pelvic and while waiting at hospital for operation suffered a stroke which paralysed the other leg. She herself had a health scare during this period, which makes her to let go of her employment. She had been given a clean bill of heart now but her father just had another operation last July and she is wondering whether there is a light at the end of the tunnel as she is about to enter her Ren Xu and Gui Hai cycles.

When I told her about your request, David, to publish her chart, I told her that both you and Lwee are far more better than me to diagnose her chart, so she agreed provided that you can give her some information on what to expect in her up coming cycles, the remaining of her productive years. She does not expected to be rich but she is worried whether she will have enough to maintain a dignify life. She wants to prepare herself to welcome what is still to come!

Best regards



Sorry guys, we are all novice here, Lwee and myself inclusive. We are no better then you do, perhaps, we are just a little more informed. So there is really no difference between a master and a novice, unless he or she wants to be a He-man and the master of the universe, that is, unfortunately not us.

... A Zen monk in jeans told me when one is a cup full, one will not learnt.

This blog, besides providing free "meals", will also provide many different perspectives, remember, this cannot be contrued as a professional readings, but as a guide, as we do not succumb to only one way of interpretations.

Besides, we have nothing to hide as all of us here are genuine seeker of the truth and sometimes, when we felt the rule base may need to be reconsidered from our case study, just liked, a fake follower that does not want to follow, proven otherwise.

So, be assured that you inform the lady's chart of the our policy and if she consented, then we will place it up for sharings.


Anonymous said...

So much wisdom and yet so modest, an auspicious sign of greatness?

We both understand that in life, nothing is absolutely 100% guarantee. Nobody is perfect and nobody can predict the future with total precision. Or else, those born with below average charts have no point of living? A wise man once said: “One has to live to prosperous!” Nothing is truer than this phrase.

However, it is better to face what is coming with ‘a plan’ rather than charging forward unprepared. An imprecise glimpse of what is coming is better than putting your best foot forward blindfolded. With this conviction we are enthusiastically studying BaZi. Unfortunately, the language barrier prevents us from sapping on your “free meals” for which we are truthfully grateful.



Yes, it is a sign of greatness and yet dullness. The package comes together, you see the sun you get the shadow.

Yes, prosperous is where one has to know how to live. That is the point and the operative word is always, HOW?

On another note, have one heard of drinking tea, living life?

Warmest Regards


Related Posts with Thumbnails