Sunday, June 28, 2009

Ambiguity On The Strength Of The Self

ShiXiang of has selflessly contributed a lot on the art of deciphering BaZi the structural manner instead of the imagery manner. He has acquired such knowledge almost without much investment, thus he is able to share what he learnt via his blog and I find it very informative indeed. Such a noble task is worth praising. I take notice of the manner in which the self (some called the day master) is categorised as strong or weak. I put aside the debates of the need to identify the strength of the self for some other time and just narrow down to the manner of which it is categorise.

The first principle is to determine the self is born: -

In the season that supports the self (some called it as in season),

Supported by the Heavenly Stem (HS) (some called in location),

Supported by the Earthly Branch (EB) (some called in formation).

If either 2 out of the 3 conditions are fulfilled, the self is known as a strong self and a strong self will need to be weakened. Whereas, a weak self will need to be strengthened. Kindly note that this method is not what has been advocated by an academy that instantaneously qualifies the self as strong when the self is born in season as many real case studies shown otherwise.

Special cases were reserved for the followings: -

The storages and graveyards of the Earth months,

The extremely weak self,

The extremely strong self,

The transformation of the supporting HS or EB. However, now every combination will transform and changes into the transformed elements just liked the saying, not all marriages will produce offspring.

Let’s look at this example: -

Ren self born in the month of Yin where wood is prosperous and water is weakened. This person is not born in season. One look at the formation, none of the EB supports the self whereas in the location, only Geng, resource is supporting the self. We have 3 conditions that fulfilled the criteria that this Ren person is a weak chart.

Hold on a second, because there is only one element that is supporting can we considered it an extremely weak chart some called a fake follower chart? Theoretically when a resource is found or revealed in the HS it does not qualify as a fake follower chart because this resource will feed the self and not allowing the self to follow other strong elements in the chart.

A closer examination of the Geng HS as the resource is being clashed away by Bing. Will the clash weakened the resource? First, the resource is not rooted and second, metal is trapped during spring season. In this condition, will the self lose its much needed resource to break away from a mare weak chart to an extremely weak follower chart? Here, the operative clash mechanism will need to be understood.

This chart belongs to a male. If we read it as a weak chart, it means difficult paths lay ahead of him otherwise if it is read as a follower chart, it means he will make it big in the future. How would you see if this was the case?

For more details refer to YI Bazi Inner Discourse.


Anonymous said...

Hi David,

This is quite an interesting chart.

I think the important factor lies in the hour pillar. With Yi Si, there is Geng in the hidden stem supporting the Ren DM.

And also there are three hidden Wu in the 3 Yins.

I am not sure if the hidden stem can be used or not, my knowledge is limited as I learn mainly from books only.

The case with be different if the hour pillar is Bing Wu. A pure fire pillar without hidden Geng will definitely render the DM useless, forcing it to follow the chart and further harming Geng.


Lwee said...

Hi David,

I like to thank you for inviting me to this blog. Hope that many people will be able to learn the beautiful art of Zi Ping bazi through our discussions.

Back to the chart, I'm of opinion that this is a weak ren DM because there is a resource star in the stem, regardless whether it is countered or not. Only successful transformations can affect the strength of the DM. The countering of bing on the geng will make this chart more unfavourable.

Regards, Lwee.


Perhaps I will reserve the topic of Heavenly Stem, Earthly Branches and Hidden Stem in details for either Lwee or Chiam to contribute. However, I found the explanation of these in Shixiang's blog quite interesting. Among others he said, the HS is Heaven Yuan, the EB is Earth Yuan and the Hidden Stem is Human Yuan. Yuan is the operative words that need to be defined.

What I do understand is HS is what can be seen. Among others it also denotes timing, the arrival of an event. What is seen is better of then what is unseen, hidden almost liked an hidden agenda...

So the hidden stem operates in that manner. It gives a further layer of understanding into the "movements" to the EB in retrospective of the things revealed.

Example, Mr A moves house, clash in the stable EB is shown. What really causes Mr A to move, can be investigated in the hidden stem.

I will state it as a weak or followers chart at a moment, just waiting for others to say their thoughts. Perhaps BaZiDiary and ShiXiang can contribute...

Thanks for the input.


BTW, I almost forget, ShiXiang did say his thoughts but he is reading his destiny instead. He may not be entirely accurate and subject to be corrected. Just take his feedback as an academic exercise because the way the chart is read depends heavily upon the strenght of the Self.

On another note, the chart has been modified to protect the owner of the chart. So it does not reflect anyone dead or alive. Any similarity is strictly coincidence.

Here is the reading given by ShiXiang in an academic manner: -
" Hi David,

I reply you my interpretation of this chart some other day can? getting low confidence lately , all my reading at fivearts forum went erratic =/ .

But just an attempt,

Owner of the chart have lung illness, health of mother is not very good. Father achievement is greater than mom. But health of father and mother is equally bad. Health of father become better after the age of 12. 1996, age of 10, health of mom, or lung is weaken.

1995, 1996 father career/health have some setback.

financial have not been very good for this guy. But at 2008, he have extra financial power for that particular year. from his teenage year, 2008 he have the best financial income, followed by 2006 and 2007.

2006 , 2007 meet a new girlfriend, or relationship problem.

Age of 18 did very well in study, obtain fame from it. Age 19, seems lost the fame, and study is not that good compare to last year.

1992(age 6) and 2004(age 18) shift house. Parent relationship is very bad in this 2 years.

lung illness start from 1992-1996, i go for 1996 is the worst , 4 years for the lung to suffer.

When hapen to the lung illness mom health is affected.

2009 , this year lung illness get better. Will have urinary problem in the future.

Metal is prone to attack. Father will have longer life than mom. Affinity with sibling and mother is very poor.

i read this chart as "chong ge". If he is rich now, then he will get richer age 32 onwards.

i hantam a lot, hopefully above got some correct. Lenient a bit, i only start reading bazi last year December. :-)


Anyone kind to feedback?

Anonymous said...

In the 12 phases of Qi, Geng Yin is in the Tomb stage. Means that it is not useful.

Does it play a role in this chart? Or the HS element is usable under all circumstances.

I have heard of follower charts, but fake follower chart not so much.

What is the different here? Is it true that in a follower chart, a sudden upset of elements will lead to a drastic death?

How bout fake follower? Is it same?
What is the useful element in this chart if it is fake follower?

Kit Teh.


Hi Kit,

In terms of operative, there is not much different. The follower chart is when the self is so weak that it needs to follow the stronger element in the chart. Similarly to a fake one. All the sudden, the elements that weaken the self becomes favorable, not that it will lead to a sudden death.


Kristine said...


I actually want to ask about myself since I am very new at this. This is my bazi (without the hour). Can you tell me if I am weak or strong fire? I know this has a big difference on who I am and I can't figure it out.






And I also have two peach blossoms in the hidden (bottom) and is there anyway I can make it better?

Thank you


Kristine said...

Sorry forgot to say

June 12 1984

Yibazi said...


Thanks for droping by. Without the hour, we are not able to discuss further. Btw, this is not a free online bazi Reading blog. Perhaps you may wish to consult



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